Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3

Tuesday, March 19, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.09
 
 

1998 BMW 323is
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Miles driven on tires: 25,000
Location: Waukesha, WI
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 25,000 Miles on Tires
March 06, 2013

The only reason I would possibly buy these again is because I believe the performance is worth the extra money on the Blizzaks. These tires, though, are impressive in their own right as they have worn EXTREMELY well. I have had these exact tires mounted on a '95 //M3 as well as this '98 323 for most of the use. Believe it or not, the difference in suspension setups still provided for similar commentary:
These tires are quite noisy (expected with winter tires) but corner extremely well. They ride quite harshly as compared to a more pricey Blizzak or Vatiiva, but for the extended wear I'll take it! All in all, I still have about 6/32 of tread after literally 6 seasons of use. This is with SPIRITED driving style. The tires have shown some rot along the sidewalls, so it is now time to replace. Overall I am happy with these considering the money spent. If you have some more cash to lay down, I would recommend some Blizzaks. Beware more frequent replacement however.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Dunlop Graspic DS-3

Wednesday, March 13, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Dunlop Graspic DS-3 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.3
 
 

2005 Mazda Mazda 6s MTX
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Miles driven on tires: 2,000
Location: Kenosha, WI
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 2,000 Miles on Tires
March 04, 2013

I’ve used two other brands of snow tires before buying these, General (Articmax) and Bridgestone (Blizzak).
First impression is that in the dry weather, these ride more like an all season tire. The Generals and Bridgestones were very loud and kind of felt squirmy at highway speeds. Once you got used to is, it was fine. The Dunlops are smooth, quiet and responsive at all speeds.
On to the Snow, these are about 80% of the other two in the snow. They are still good, but not as sure footed, especially in heavy slush conditions. With the other two, I felt like my Mazda was an SUV!! I don’t have the same confidence with these, but if you drive “normally” they will get you were you need go without much drama.
Overall, I think they are a good tire, but just not up to the level of the other 2 I have used. I cannot comment on tire wear, as this is the first season.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Michelin X-Ice Xi3

Tuesday, March 12, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Michelin X-Ice Xi3 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.36
 
 

2010 BMW 535i xDrive Wagon
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Miles driven on tires: 3,000
Location:  
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 3,000 Miles on Tires
March 02, 2013

Impressed with this tire so far with spirited driving. Easy to forget they are winter tires on dry pavement, obviously a bit softer but overall a very good compromize for the marked improved winter weather handling. Pretty quiet, much quieter than Blizzak WS60 on '09 Odyssey.
Makes the Xdrive wagon very stable family hauler until ground clearance becomes an issue.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus

Tuesday, March 12, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.2
 
 

2006 Mercedes-Benz E350 Sedan
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Miles driven on tires: 50
Location: Beverly Hills, CA
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 50 Miles on Tires
March 09, 2013

Simple review - Fantastic tyres really in every respect. Outperform the best Michelin Touring tires by a mile (no pun). Frankly, the best tyres I have ever purchased, and would highly recommend them to anyone who is looking for a higher end touring tyre, and whom doesn't want to pay the Continental price - you even get a better tyre than Continental with these Bridgestones. Bottom line, you get what you pay for, and irrespective of this rationale, you just get great value comparitively. I will never buy Michelin (or anything else for that matter) again after these.

Side note - Bridgestone in general; I purchased a set of Blizzaks a decade ago and they completely outperform ANY other snow tyre I've had before.

Just a great manufacturer.

PS, don't be fooled by 'Turanza with Serenity Technology' you have to get the 'Serenity Plus'.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60

Thursday, March 7, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.64
 
 

2004 Mercedes-Benz C230 Sport Coupe
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Miles driven on tires: 8,000
Location: Waukesha, WI
Driving Condition: Average

Initial Review, 8,000 Miles on Tires
March 06, 2013

These tires replaced some terrible Michelin all-seasons which made the hatchback Mercedes basically a hockey puck in the ice/snow. The LM-60 tires are absolutely the best rubber I've found, hands down, for winter sport tires. This opinion is compared to Dunlop Wintersport M3, D3, Blizzak WS-60, and Nokian Vatiiva. I have used all of these other tires extensively on multiple cars with multiple driving styles, and I would now go with the Blizzak marque in general for ALL winter vehicles from here on out.
Cons- winter tires are always noisier, and the Blizzaks fit the mold. Mileage suffers a bit, and wear is accelerated with the softer rubber. Driving with an average style can prolong life and get you hopefully 4-5 seasons out of them. Start getting some G's on your turns frequently, and you may only get a couple seasons at best. These tires will not wear well on cars with suspension work / increased cambers. Beware.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70

Thursday, March 7, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.89
 
 

2011 Hyundai Sonata
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Miles driven on tires: 3,000
Location: Storrs Mansfield, CT
Driving Condition: Average

Initial Review, 3,000 Miles on Tires
March 06, 2013

This set of Blizzak WS-70s are superior to the previous older set I owned and ran for 9 New England winters. As long as one only runs them during winter months, they last a reasonable amount of time with very good performance. They really excel in icy and slushy conditions, which are common in the Northeast.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70

Wednesday, March 6, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 9.09
 
 

2007 Chevrolet Cobalt Coupe with 5 Lug Wheels
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Miles driven on tires: 7,500
Location:  
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 7,500 Miles on Tires
February 27, 2013

Amazing Winter tires for a front wheel drive sports car. Was able to do rooster tails in 6 inches of snow, and Ice was not ever a problem. Going up and down hills, even from a stopped position was also better than expected. very little tire spin even in 6 inches of snow on non treated roads. Road noise was also very little. Noting that tread wear was faster than i expected I probably would have rotated every 2500 miles. I will be able to get a second season out of these tires though.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1

Wednesday, March 6, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 10
 
 

2004 Toyota 4Runner 4wd SR5
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Miles driven on tires: 3,000
Location: Erie, PA
Driving Condition: Average

Initial Review, 3,000 Miles on Tires
February 28, 2013

I should have purchased these DM-V1 Blizzaks when my truck was new! They are extremely quiet, handle great in the water, and handle our Erie lake-effect snow and ice covered roads with ease. I went through 2 sets of Bridgestone Dueler Revo's thinking they would be the best year-round tire, but they wore quickly even with regular rotations, they were relatively loud, and they were absolutely aweful in the snow and ice. The Blizzaks are much quieter, give a much more comfortable ride, and significantly increased my fuel mileage! I would recommend them to anyone who faces winter weather as we do. Now I just need to find a comparable tire for the summer months with all of the benefits we have found with the Blizzaks. We have been big Blizzak fans on our cars through the Blizzak WS-50, WS-60, and WS-70 tire models, but they did not fit my truck. I'm so glad I trusted the Blizzak name and tried the DM-V1!

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Michelin HydroEdge with Green X

Wednesday, March 6, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Michelin HydroEdge with Green X Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.11
 
 

1996 Toyota Corolla DX
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Miles driven on tires: 80,000
Location: Liverpool, NY
Driving Condition: Average

Initial Review, 80,000 Miles on Tires
February 27, 2013

I live in the upstate NY and we get 120 inches of snow annually. I don't understand why people are rating these tires low for snow--look at the ratings! Although they are all-season, these tires are not made for snow--the rating prove it. Looking at the tread design, they are nothing but a sled in snow. There is no such thing as an all-season tire in the northeast, except for winter tires--period! I drive 110 miles a day and see many cars off the road--yup, there goes another all-season tire car. My son has these tires on a 1996 corolla and he has approx 80K on then; yes, he also has Blizzaks for winter tires and he can go anywhere with those tires. Use these tires from spring to fall and you will be fine. Use these tires year-round, and you will regret ti.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70

Thursday, February 28, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 9.5
 
 

2012 Chevrolet Cruze
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Miles driven on tires: 1,000
Location: Ridgewood, NJ
Driving Condition: Easy Going

Initial Review, 1,000 Miles on Tires
February 26, 2013

I've read many reviews regarding these tires stating that these tires made their car feel like a 4-wheel drive vehicle. The truth is, they do not. I've owned 4wds all of my life and these tires cannot compare to 4-wheel drive and good tires. Let me explain... do these tires dramatically help my car in the snow? Absolutely. Do they inspire confidence that my all seasons would never be able to do in the snow? Yes. Can I spin my front tires in the snow with ease? Yes I can. I have a lot of hills where I live here in NJ. We recently had about a foot of snow.. and on average hills, my car made it up very well, but the tires would break loose a bit. And my speed wasn't as fast as I would have liked. But yes, the tires made it possible for me to proceed up the hill. Did it turn my car into 4wd? No. Would I recommend these to anyone looking for a safer ride in the snow.. yes of course. They really help. But just don't expect you can drive 'anywhere' in the snow... like up steep hills.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70

Thursday, February 28, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 9.09
 
 

2005 Subaru Outback Wagon 2.5I
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Miles driven on tires: 5,000
Location: West Allis, WI
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 5,000 Miles on Tires
February 26, 2013

Bought these before the Wisconsin winter. They have made a world of difference. I fishtailed once in what was probably 3-4 inches, and without any weight in the back of the wagon. I slipped on a patch of black ice on a side road, but once the tires hit snow again, they gripped right up and I was on my merry way. That is my entire list of incidents this winter. Accelerating from stoplights, stopping, turning, highway ramps have all been fine. Next year, the wife will be getting a set for her car.

They are also nice and sticky in dry/wet(not frozen) conditions. Noticed an immediate increase in performance when I put them on.

High quality tire.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position

Thursday, February 28, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.


Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole PositionReviewer's Overall Rating: 8.86

1986 Toyota MR2
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Miles driven on tires: 500
Location: Burlington, KY
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 500 Miles on Tires
March 25, 2011

I purchased this tire to replace a pair of worn Blizzaks on my daily driven MR2. The tires were mounted on the stock rims on a car with a refreshed and slightly upgraded suspension setup (stock height), all parts replaced and aligned. Even though the stock tire size is 185/60/14, I went to the 195/60 in hopes of getting a bit more comfort, but still great traction, with this car that I DD (highway) and still hit up the backroads with on the weekends.

Based on reviews and ratings (price wasn't bad either), I opted for these Bridgestones. I haven't really done too much serious driving, but I can say that the tires are much quieter than the old Blizzaks and just as much so as the 215/45/16 Hankook RS2s (great tire, but not much creature comforts) I had last summer. Also, these Bridgestones are predictable and direct with inputs. On the highway they ride smooth, as a new tire should but, again, they are nice and quiet.

Just this evening, I took them down one of my favorite stretches of backroads, and for a tire so comfortable, they just blew me away! Very direct, predictable, and firm. I didn't feel any squirm or "mushiness" from the front to the back, even through some interesting set of turns. They catered amazingly to my mid-engined coupe's unique handling characteristics, and had me having to throttle down a bit because of how fast I was going with the car still feeling so secured to the road... Frankly I was shocked! I look forward to making these tires last, all while getting the best use out of them. I hope to report back in the future!



A note about a previous review; perspectively good tires don't make your car lose control, but a poor alignment might. Proper alignment is important when judging how well a tire performs. Side note, I was surprised at the number of Porsche owners who commented on how well these tires performed for them, certainly in the pursuit of comfort from day to day, and performance from weekend to weekend.

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60

Thursday, February 28, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 7.73
 
 

2007 Toyota Sienna FWD
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Miles driven on tires: 9,000
Location: McLean, VA
Driving Condition: Average

Initial Review, 9,000 Miles on Tires
December 24, 2012

this is a great snow tire. from light snow to the deep stuff, this tire performs excellent. with FWD and electronic traction control there is no need for 4wd with these tires. ice traction is very good as well. so, if you drive in a lot of snow, this is a perfect choice. if you drive mainly in slushy/icy conditions, there may be a better performing tire, but for superior snow traction, very good ice traction and no noticeable flaws, I would buy the ws60 again.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70

Thursday, February 28, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 9.64
 
 

2006 Saab 9-3 2.0T
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Miles driven on tires: 4,000
Location: Waukesha, WI
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 4,000 Miles on Tires
February 25, 2013

My car was so-so in the snow before I bought these tires. Now i feel like I'm driving a 4WD truck. I can go through anything (within reason) and feel completely comfortable. We've got hit pretty hard with snow this winter too and there's no way I could have made an hour commute everyday in this snow without these tires. I will definitely be purchasing these again when it's time for a new car.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Michelin X-Ice Xi3

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Michelin X-Ice Xi3 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 9.73
 
 

2011 Infiniti G37x Sedan
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Miles driven on tires: 5,000
Location: Ottawa, ON
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 5,000 Miles on Tires
February 08, 2013

I live in Ottawa, Canada where the average snowfall is measured in yards rather than inches. We have had freezing rain storms given the global warming and the Michelin X-i13 tires performed almost flawlessly in every situation. Their only weakness in my opinion is the softer sidewall designed and used for comfort rather than for immediate response on my Infiniti G37x sedan. It is a most worthy compromise because there is always secure traction and spirited driving is only done with controlled and very predictible power sliding. While this is not my ususal style of driving especially on congested streets, the tires always offered exceptional traction, control and feedback.
The best return on using these tires was during heavy snow and ice storms. Their comfort and positive traction only reinforced my confidence and security on the roads. This was very noticeable when arriving at stop signs and the glazed ice from other cars and trucks without proper and sensitive brake pressure. The X-i13 always provided greater traction during those stops and never with the worries of drifting into a busy intersection.
I greatly support and highly recommend these tires for any and every car driven in varying winter conditions and temperatures. The control and comfort are simply exceptional and a great improvement on my previous Michelin X-i12 and Blizzak tires used on my Nissan Maxima.
These are the best all-round winter tires on the market today.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak WS70

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.


Bridgestone Blizzak WS70Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.18

2004 Acura TSX
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Miles driven on tires: 2,000
Location: Toronto, ON
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 2,000 Miles on Tires
February 20, 2013

Really impressed by this tire! I've only had it for a short while but it has not failed to get me out of a few messy snow days here in Canada. I'm not sure what all the comments are regarding dry traction but perhaps it's your driving or car that's the issue. I have no problems with dry traction and control on my TSX. In comparision to Observe Garits, W.Drives, XSi2, and W60s, these are really good!

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Michelin Pilot Super Sport

Monday, February 25, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Michelin Pilot Super Sport Reviewer's Overall Rating: 9.88
 
 

2005 Honda S2000
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Miles driven on tires: 5,000
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Driving Condition: Spirited

Initial Review, 5,000 Miles on Tires
February 20, 2013

I crashed my S2000 in the rain due to bad tires, so I bought these for my repaired S2K because I heard that A) they came on a lot of new super cars, B) Michelin makes tires for space shuttles!, and C) the tires are less expensive than the value I put on my life. I no longer drive extremely fast in the rain, so I can't say for sure here. For warm weather, these tires are amazing. Even when it got to 10 degrees F, these tires were very predictable. Obviously, never attempt to use these on snow or ice... that being said, I was able to maneuver my S2000 around my snowy driveway in December going 1.00 MPH, which is better than my last tires. I compared my S2K with a newer Evo (that had nice tires) around corners in the summer; obviously the Evo was faster because I am not a pro driver and didn't have traction control, but the S2K was still respectable. For winter, I use Blizzaks on all my other cars, and my S2K hibernates in the garage. If you like extremely good tires in only hot weather, I highly recommend this tire!

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Michelin X-Ice Xi3

Monday, February 25, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.


Michelin X-Ice Xi3Reviewer's Overall Rating: 8.64

2013 Audi Allroad
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Miles driven on tires: 1,000
Location: Nashua, NH
Driving Condition: Average

Initial Review, 1,000 Miles on Tires
February 17, 2013

For many years I used Bridgestone Blizzaks, which perform very well in ice and snow. But for my new all-wheel drive Audi, I wanted winter tires that handled better on dry pavement. The Michelin Xi3 was said to almost equal the Blizzaks on ice and snow but be less "squishy" on dry and wet pavement, so I went with the Michelin.

Shortly after mounting them I drove to the NH White Mountains and took part in a winter driving school. For two days I practiced slalom and skid-pad maneuvers on ice and packed snow. The Michelins were exemplary here, and the instructors were very impressed. While other cars (mostly AWD Audis) were sliding into snowbanks left and right, my allroad with the Michelins stayed in control, accelerated and braked very well.

The claimed performance on dry roads was also seen - unlike the Blizzaks, the Michelins don't howl and they felt very much like good all-season tires on dry pavement, with a confident feeling. Very impressive.

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60

Wednesday, February 20, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.

Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 Reviewer's Overall Rating: 9.45
 
 

2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8
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Miles driven on tires: 4,000
Location: Dover, NH
Driving Condition: Average

Initial Review, 4,000 Miles on Tires
February 16, 2013

My second set of Blizzak's had my first set with my Tiburon. We got a mild snow here early and the regular tires on the Genesis were already spinning like crazy. I knew I was going to need snow tires in the New England winter so I went ahead and bought Blizzaks once again Tire Rack beat everyone else's prices by a mile actually coming in at $300 less including shipping than any tire shop I checked at. I went out with the car last weekend during the so-named storm of Nemo here and saw one SUV off the road immediately upon exiting the turnpike ramp. Not an unusual sight mind you but comical to go by in my RWD Genesis and have no problems at all. As other reviews have said, the Blizzaks really grip the road and may give you a false sense of confidence combined with the ESC on the car. Having learned to drive with RWD vehicles and in New England winters there is no substitute for leaving 10 minutes earlier or leaving extra space when following another vehicle and for braking, some people seem to forget all common sense every winter and wind up in the ditch. That being said, the Blizzaks will get you where you want to go, even when two vehicles couldn't seem to make it up a small hill (more of a grade mind you) and I had to come to a complete stop or hit them, I still got up the hill there was some spinning but once they got traction up we went. These tires are worth every penny and my last set lasted the four winters I ran them when I had the car. Typically I drive around 12k a year so the snow tires see maybe 6k each winter for mileage.

 

Tire Rack Consumer Review of the Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1

Wednesday, February 13, 2013 by Tire Rack Consumer Reviews

The following post was created from content submitted via Tire Rack's consumer surveys. Information shown is the opinion of the consumer and meant to be used for comparison shopping purposes.


Bridgestone Blizzak DM-V1Reviewer's Overall Rating: 9.6

2012 Honda Odyssey
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Miles driven on tires: 1,500
Location: Cleveland, OH
Driving Condition: Average

Initial Review, 1,500 Miles on Tires
February 02, 2013

This is a great winter tire in all conditions. A week after installing I was caught in a serious lake effect storm that left 4wd pickups in ditches. We just kept moving. These tires provide a strong sense of security and control. Have found only one downside - these tires have so much traction that you can become overconfident - they can be made to slide. They work exceptionally well on ice, but cannot overcome the laws of physics completely. Was originally a little concerned about squirm mentioned by some and thought about the Michelins, but have experienced nothing but secure handling in our Odyssey, including on dry interstates. We had Blizzaks before but these are the best yet.